Comments on: Civil Servants http://www.robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=civil-servants Rob writes about news, economics, politics and other things Wed, 28 Sep 2011 03:47:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rob Paris http://www.robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/comment-page-1/#comment-7 Rob Paris Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:55:40 +0000 http://robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/#comment-7 Joe – That’s true, there are plenty of companies offering lifetime annuities. But what happens when the company estimates wrong? It goes out of business. What happens when the government estimates wrong? It raises taxes. A little moral hazard there. The SS payment is somewhat based on how much you put in, but not entirely. Look at Ida May Fuller. $24.75 in, $22,888.92 out. Also consider the impact on Social Security survivors insurance for those who are married compared to those who aren’t. I’m not going to disagree with you about the government spending the money. You’re totally right. And that’s why their current liabilities aren’t on the book. $100 trillion is a lot of money… before hyperinflation that is. <blockquote cite="#comment-body-644"> <strong><a href="#comment-644" rel="nofollow">joeatwsj</a> :</strong> Only some annuities are paid out for a predetermined time. They can also be based on how long you live, very much like social security. Also, the amount of your social security payment is based on how much you (and your employer if you have had one) paid in to the system. It is very much an insurance program, funded by those who benefit. The problem is that gov’t didn’t take your contributions and investment to fund your retirement, instead they spent them. For all those years when current income was less than current outlays the gov’t called it a surplus and added it to the general budget, now that outlays are expected to exceed income (a problem we’ve known about for a generation) the program has been rebranded as an entitlement and a gov’t give away. <a></a> </blockquote> Joe – That’s true, there are plenty of companies offering lifetime annuities. But what happens when the company estimates wrong? It goes out of business. What happens when the government estimates wrong? It raises taxes. A little moral hazard there.
The SS payment is somewhat based on how much you put in, but not entirely. Look at Ida May Fuller. $24.75 in, $22,888.92 out. Also consider the impact on Social Security survivors insurance for those who are married compared to those who aren’t.
I’m not going to disagree with you about the government spending the money. You’re totally right. And that’s why their current liabilities aren’t on the book. $100 trillion is a lot of money… before hyperinflation that is.

joeatwsj :

Only some annuities are paid out for a predetermined time. They can also be based on how long you live, very much like social security. Also, the amount of your social security payment is based on how much you (and your employer if you have had one) paid in to the system. It is very much an insurance program, funded by those who benefit. The problem is that gov’t didn’t take your contributions and investment to fund your retirement, instead they spent them. For all those years when current income was less than current outlays the gov’t called it a surplus and added it to the general budget, now that outlays are expected to exceed income (a problem we’ve known about for a generation) the program has been rebranded as an entitlement and a gov’t give away.

]]> By: joeatwsj http://www.robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/comment-page-1/#comment-6 joeatwsj Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:35:51 +0000 http://robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/#comment-6 Only some annuities are paid out for a predetermined time. They can also be based on how long you live, very much like social security. Also, the amount of your social security payment is based on how much you (and your employer if you have had one) paid in to the system. It is very much an insurance program, funded by those who benefit. The problem is that gov't didn't take your contributions and investment to fund your retirement, instead they spent them. For all those years when current income was less than current outlays the gov't called it a surplus and added it to the general budget, now that outlays are expected to exceed income (a problem we've known about for a generation) the program has been rebranded as an entitlement and a gov't give away. Only some annuities are paid out for a predetermined time. They can also be based on how long you live, very much like social security. Also, the amount of your social security payment is based on how much you (and your employer if you have had one) paid in to the system. It is very much an insurance program, funded by those who benefit. The problem is that gov’t didn’t take your contributions and investment to fund your retirement, instead they spent them. For all those years when current income was less than current outlays the gov’t called it a surplus and added it to the general budget, now that outlays are expected to exceed income (a problem we’ve known about for a generation) the program has been rebranded as an entitlement and a gov’t give away.

]]> By: robparis http://www.robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/comment-page-1/#comment-5 robparis Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:14:20 +0000 http://robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/#comment-5 When you buy an annuity, you receive a predetermined amount of money at a predetermined time based on the initial capital and interest rate. Social Security lifetime payments however, are not dependent on contributions, but on how long you live. Also, I'm not condemning the people on Social Security, but the program itself. <blockquote cite="#comment-body-642"> <strong><a href="#comment-642" rel="nofollow">joeatwsj</a> :</strong> <div class="avatar"><img alt="" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/bac60a18745d1e44d0e6c0304cc418f3?s=64&d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D64&r=G" class="avatar avatar-64 photo" height="64" width="64"></div> <p>if I buy an annuity, when it comes time to collect, would you think that I am sucking on the private sector tit? If not, then why, after a lifetime of paying in, you would characterise social security recipients as such? </p> <p>Boggles the mind…</p> <a id="comment-reply-642" rel="nofollow"></a> </blockquote> When you buy an annuity, you receive a predetermined amount of money at a predetermined time based on the initial capital and interest rate. Social Security lifetime payments however, are not dependent on contributions, but on how long you live.

Also, I’m not condemning the people on Social Security, but the program itself.

joeatwsj :

if I buy an annuity, when it comes time to collect, would you think that I am sucking on the private sector tit? If not, then why, after a lifetime of paying in, you would characterise social security recipients as such?

Boggles the mind…

]]> By: joeatwsj http://www.robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/comment-page-1/#comment-4 joeatwsj Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:49:22 +0000 http://robvstate.com/2009/08/27/civil-servants/#comment-4 if I buy an annuity, when it comes time to collect, would you think that I am sucking on the private sector tit? If not, then why, after a lifetime of paying in, you would characterise social security recipients as such? Boggles the mind... if I buy an annuity, when it comes time to collect, would you think that I am sucking on the private sector tit? If not, then why, after a lifetime of paying in, you would characterise social security recipients as such?

Boggles the mind…

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